Film critic Johnson Thomas discusses the journey of award winning film 1888 with debutant filmmaker Sourabh Shukla
Sourabh Shukla's debut directorial feature,a thriller in Kannada, '1888' set during India's 2016 demonetization period has won accolades at several international film festivals, including winning the Best Director Award at the Onyko Film Awards 2023 in Ukraine and the Outstanding Achievement Award for Best Debut Filmmaker (Sourabh Shukla) at the World Film Carnival 2023 in Singapore. It was also nominated for Best Feature Film award at the 20th Indian Film Festival Stuttgart 2023.In an interview with Independent Filmcritic Johnson Thomas, he speaks about the many challenges he faced to reach his audience from idea to screen...
What is your background and how you did you develop a passion for filmmaking?
I'm originally from Mysuru, Karnataka. That's where I was born and brought up and studied as well as worked before shifting to Bengaluru where I have been living for the past 10 years or so. My engineering degree was in computer science, and I worked in some MNCs like Infosys, Microsoft, Dell etc.
Cinema has been an integral part of me. For the longest time I remember I have been watching all kinds of films - Bollywood, Hollywood, Kannada, Malayalam, European, Art-house films, Chinese kung fu filmsetc. Even when I was around 5 or 6 years old i remember being awestruck by Satayjit Ray’s Pather Panchali and Ketan Mehta’s Mirch Masala. I don't know why, but it resonated and since then passion for cinema has been a part of me.
How difficult was it making the career shift from Engineering to filmmaking?
I feel that the career shift to filmmaking is not a surprise considering the fact that cinema has been intrinsic to my life. Even as a teenager or child when I would watch films, the hidden filmmaker in me would have a lot of questions - Like why was this shot framed in a certain way? Was this scene really necessary? Could the background score be a little more subtle? Sometimes you visualize yourself as the director and wonder if you could make the similar story as brilliantly as it came out. So for someone like me who is so passionate about films and open to learning it is a natural progression.
In Fact even before YouTube became popular around 2006 I made my first short film with a friend. We just went around in a car to a farmhouse in the outskirts of Mysore and shot some scenes using a handycam. Lot of things were done on the spot and then edited in a day and I think we sent it to some film festival where it was selected as well.
Did you have any technical proficiency regarding filmmaking? How did you girdle yourself for the challenge?
I did not have any technical proficiency as such. I have never studied filmmaking nor ever assisted any filmmaker. My learning has been through films, you know, to borrow a famous line from Tarantino - “I never went to Film School, I went to Films”. So I've just observed and tried out things on my own like, getting my hands dirty whether it was scripting, editing, production, choreography etc even subtitling.
To be honest I did attend a few certificate courses and workshops on film making and film appreciation. But trust me, I don't think they helped me in any way. As in, they did not work for me personally. So gearing up for the challenge was to jump into the opportunity and figure things out in due course. There was nothing to lose as there was no baggage. I just listened to my heart and went with the flow.
Why did you choose your debut feature to be a Kannada language film?
I’m from Karnataka and I speak Kannada as well. I have also watched a lot of Kannada movies, hence it was the natural choice. Yes, we were unsure if the movie would be accepted by the average kannada movie watching audience because the movie was quite experimental though it had a lot of mainstream elements. But then we just thought let’s do it in Kannada even though it’s a relatively smaller industry (when compared to Hindi, Telugu, Tamil etc). I would have loved to do this in multiple languages but resources were definitely a constraint.
Was the lockdown instrumental in giving your filmmaking career a start?
Lockdown gave birth to a lot of creative ideas and also helped in the ample research that I put in for this movie to keep it authentic. So creatively yes, it did give a fillip. But there were setbacks as well because there were delays and challenges that affected our post production and we also had to do some reshoots. This also led to increased costs which were a burden for me and my skeleton team. Last but not the least the shift that we see in the audience movie watching experience. OTTs took over and cinema is not the same anymore.
You said you’ve done shorts and ad films as a stepping stone to making a feature. How long did it take you to drum up the courage and confidence to make this feature?
It honestly did not take much. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a certain risk appetite and I go with the flow. I just jumped into this when the opportunity was there. Also I had my regular job which was needed because this was a self-funded project. Though the ads and shorts I did earlier shaped my learning and sensibilities, that played a very small part in embarking on this project. That’s also because this was initially a short film and only later did it graduate to becoming a feature film.
Were budgetary constraints a challenge even though you were shooting it guerrilla style?
First of all Guerrilla style for us was not by choice, but due to lack of it i would say. Primarily due to both budget and resource constraints. Not to mention the fact that we are outsiders with regards to the film industry and whatever little we spoke to someone from the industry we felt more like outsiders. It also felt like a lot of castles are built in the air there and one has to be very careful. A lot of stories that we hear or come across as gossip started seeming real.
That's why we just decided to take the leap of faith. I had a regular day job, which was a double edged sword. Because it did give me a safety net but it also meant I worked in a stretch mode shooting primarily after work hours (that’s why you see a lot of the movie happens at night) and on weekends if not holidays. Also, whenever the funds dried up, I had to wait for the month end for the salary to be credited before we could resume shooting. THis budgetary constraint and resource constraint also meant we did a lot of begging and borrowing (thankfully no stealing) and if i can say this - shooting without permission. However at the end this also worked in our favor because a lot of the locations looked real (no studios remember) and so did characters because they were played by people who perform that job daily and not actors be it a car mechanic or a journalist in the movie. Some well known actors like Neethu Shetty were used to big unit productions and the comforts that come with it which I obviously could not provide. However, they were sweet enough to adjust because for them their craft is more important.
How did you get people to collaborate with you on the tech front ?
On the tech front I was involved in most of the things and did a lot of it on my own, be it the rough edit, subtitling, choreography, scripting, production etc. Sound is not my department and hence I did some R&D and collaborated with newcomers because that’s what I could afford. But then the advantage was there was a lot of freshness as well, which is visible in the music and the Sound effects. Best part is no ego issues to deal with which I believe would have happened if I was working with industry veterans. The entire team of 1888 except for a few members from the cast and crew are debutantes. Most of them came onboard via references from friends and also some searching on facebook.
And actors? Was it easy to convince them to take on the challenge?
My trump card was getting the most famous name in our movie - Neethu Shetty onboard. That was possible because she is a good friend and I knew her for quite some time. Also the fact that this movie was not run of the mill and she had a very interesting role to play helped. She did have her apprehensions but in due course they were laid to rest. Because of Neethu I also got some of her other friends who are famous in the Kannada industry like Raghu Ramappa and Adhviti Shetty. So it was not really a major challenge. The rest of the cast were my friends and acquaintances. The major challenge was to get them to dub for their parts because they had their regular jobs and there was quite some gap between the shoot and the voice recording. But in the end it was all managed because I put my begging and convincing skills to best use here. I mean what are friends for, right?
Would you advise young budding filmmakers to get well-versed with the rudiments of filmmaking before embarking on such a challenge?
My personal advice for budding filmmakers is to go out there and maybe try making a short film. Could be just a 1 min film. Just be open to ideas and feedback and sleep over it. If you want to revisit it’s ok to re-shoot. But before all this ask yourself with utmost honesty why do you want to do this? There are no rights and wrongs here. It could be for the glamor attached to filmmaking or it could just be an avenue for you to express yourself creatively. Next is to understand one’s constraints/limits and play around it. Even if you want to stretch, limit that to 10-15% max. Of course, there's always the mainstream path. The conventional path i.e., applying to a film School, or probably assisting someone from the industry. There obviously learnings and progression there as well. I'm not sure how good that is, because I haven't tried that and a few folks that I worked with who came from that path were a mixed bag in my opinion. I personally feel like for me this whole journey of making a feature film that too guerrilla style, was like doing a PhD in filmmaking, and definitely a very satisfying experience. So the optimists and open-to-experiment-and-learn folks out there can also try that route. There are certain (infact a lot) mistakes that I made, which I can always share. But that’s a separate topic again.
How did you conceive the idea for this film?
Basically, my friend and I wanted to make a short film and we had been discussing multiple ideas for quite some-time. When demonetisation happened we came across some very interesting stories first-hand. It was very interesting. Upon further digging and reading more we felt like we were getting some interesting ideas to shoot a short film. However from the start we were clear about not focussing on the political part of it, like good move versus bad or should it have been better planned etc. we were more interested in the consequences of this move and certain unexpected things that surfaced. as we went deeper into research we kept on adding scenes and characters - that's how we ended up making a feature length film.
Do you foresee challenges from the govt because you have touched upon demonetisation as a background for the story?
I did foresee some problems initially. Interestingly the scene that the censor board found problematic was one of the most crucial scenes and my personal favorite in which I also acted the part. It dealt with crypto-currency and the deep web. I had never anticipated any issues with this scene. So that was surprising. Also we had to do a re-edit later to keep the movie length under 2 hours and because of that some scenes had to be removed which were not crucial but could have rubbed people the wrong way.
Are you satisfied with your final product?
I’m quite satisfied with the movie as such, however even now I keep getting thoughts as to what could have been better or what could have been avoided. I’m pretty sure that if I were to make the same movie today it would be a much better product overall. I’m sure this happens with a lot of people and is part and parcel of the creative journey one undertakes.
Why choose to release it on woocoo?
It’s live not just on Woocoo but multiple platforms as of today. The movie is playing on some big platforms like AppleTV, Tubi TV, Bookmyshow Streaming, Youtube Movies alongwith some new budding platforms like VDOJar, CineBazzar, MovieSaints, FutureTV etc.
Would you suggest new age filmmakers should handle story, screenplay, direction etc to have creative control over their work and how it pans out?
From a learning and creative control perspective definitely yes. It's your baby and no one else but you can give it the kind of attention it deserves. But coming to the practical part i'm not sure if that's possible especially nowadays where production studios demand greater control and without their support it's almost impossible to even get a decent release or be able to sell the rights. They decide on every aspect from the casting to camera used to creatives. There is a possibility to find the middle ground and I'm sure that can be rewarding too but that totally depends on the studio again and their trust on the filmmaker. Personally I would like to handle story, screenplay, direction and am sure many filmmakers prefer it that way. I'm a fan of the auteur approach. I'm not sure if that would work successfully in today's constantly changing landscape.
How does winning awards make you feel?
It absolutely depends on the award as in the organisation offering it. What I realised after applying to multiple film festivals and bagging awards, is that a lot of these film festivals especially those that are online-only are not even genuine ones. They are basically scams to make some quick bucks. Sending your movie entry there and winning an award is actually a waste of time and money. Apart from that, winning an award at the festivals that have been around for a long time and have an esteemed jury, is definitely special. Even more if the competition is stiffer in terms of the quality of films submitted and the number of films from all parts of the world. For example: winning an honorable jury mention in Dadasaheb Phalke Film Festival felt really special because we were up against some of the best and biggest films of 2023. So did being a nominee in the Indian Film festival, Stuttgart. Sometimes just being selected by a prestigious film festival feels more special than winning an award in a smaller film festival. I'm not saying this to demean any film festival because they all have their own journeys and their own criteria, but just that it feels that one's movie has been scrutinised more and has gone through a bigger validation process. Like it or not, sometimes that validation does help especially for indie filmmakers who are today struggling to showcase their work due to lack of opportunities. So yes, to summarise it winning an award does feel special and especially if it's in some core category like Best Feature, Best Director etc when compared to say Best Poster, Best Costume etc.
Does it motivate you to make more films even though this film did not really have a commercial release?
Honestly speaking it does not. Things have changed dramatically. Today unfortunately streamers refer to a checklist to pick films and more than the creative or cinematic merits a film is judged on the basis of certain data points like BO collection, Star power in the movie, Number of articles published in national media, Instagram followers, genre etc. Shallow but the bitter truth that's hard to digest. An indie film is also forced to tow the line of a mainstream commercial film in terms of release, publicity etc. I'm not kidding but I hear a lot of indie and docu filmmakers say there is a shift today and probably it's wiser to make instagram reels and youtube shorts these days. There are better monetisation opportunities for an influencer today than a filmmaker. So while I would love to make more films and tell stories I believe in, I'm not sure if I should. Because for sure the creative part is going to be great and the journey till the first copy will be rewarding. But what after that ? will the film ever play on any ott platform even if it releases commercially but doesn't make a lot of sound like a KGF or Pathaan. Will the movie be limited to a few festival screenings only? how am i going to make another film if there is no revenue coming in at all ? At the end the producer has to at least break even. Things are not like before where it was simpler to get funding and/or atleast release a film. The entire landscape , the eco system has changed a lot especially post pandemic.
I'm originally from Mysuru, Karnataka. That's where I was born and brought up and studied as well as worked before shifting to Bengaluru where I have been living for the past 10 years or so. My engineering degree was in computer science, and I worked in some MNCs like Infosys, Microsoft, Dell etc.
Cinema has been an integral part of me. For the longest time I remember I have been watching all kinds of films - Bollywood, Hollywood, Kannada, Malayalam, European, Art-house films, Chinese kung fu filmsetc. Even when I was around 5 or 6 years old i remember being awestruck by Satayjit Ray’s Pather Panchali and Ketan Mehta’s Mirch Masala. I don't know why, but it resonated and since then passion for cinema has been a part of me.
How difficult was it making the career shift from Engineering to filmmaking?
I feel that the career shift to filmmaking is not a surprise considering the fact that cinema has been intrinsic to my life. Even as a teenager or child when I would watch films, the hidden filmmaker in me would have a lot of questions - Like why was this shot framed in a certain way? Was this scene really necessary? Could the background score be a little more subtle? Sometimes you visualize yourself as the director and wonder if you could make the similar story as brilliantly as it came out. So for someone like me who is so passionate about films and open to learning it is a natural progression.
In Fact even before YouTube became popular around 2006 I made my first short film with a friend. We just went around in a car to a farmhouse in the outskirts of Mysore and shot some scenes using a handycam. Lot of things were done on the spot and then edited in a day and I think we sent it to some film festival where it was selected as well.
Did you have any technical proficiency regarding filmmaking? How did you girdle yourself for the challenge?
I did not have any technical proficiency as such. I have never studied filmmaking nor ever assisted any filmmaker. My learning has been through films, you know, to borrow a famous line from Tarantino - “I never went to Film School, I went to Films”. So I've just observed and tried out things on my own like, getting my hands dirty whether it was scripting, editing, production, choreography etc even subtitling.
To be honest I did attend a few certificate courses and workshops on film making and film appreciation. But trust me, I don't think they helped me in any way. As in, they did not work for me personally. So gearing up for the challenge was to jump into the opportunity and figure things out in due course. There was nothing to lose as there was no baggage. I just listened to my heart and went with the flow.
Why did you choose your debut feature to be a Kannada language film?
I’m from Karnataka and I speak Kannada as well. I have also watched a lot of Kannada movies, hence it was the natural choice. Yes, we were unsure if the movie would be accepted by the average kannada movie watching audience because the movie was quite experimental though it had a lot of mainstream elements. But then we just thought let’s do it in Kannada even though it’s a relatively smaller industry (when compared to Hindi, Telugu, Tamil etc). I would have loved to do this in multiple languages but resources were definitely a constraint.
Was the lockdown instrumental in giving your filmmaking career a start?
Lockdown gave birth to a lot of creative ideas and also helped in the ample research that I put in for this movie to keep it authentic. So creatively yes, it did give a fillip. But there were setbacks as well because there were delays and challenges that affected our post production and we also had to do some reshoots. This also led to increased costs which were a burden for me and my skeleton team. Last but not the least the shift that we see in the audience movie watching experience. OTTs took over and cinema is not the same anymore.
You said you’ve done shorts and ad films as a stepping stone to making a feature. How long did it take you to drum up the courage and confidence to make this feature?
It honestly did not take much. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a certain risk appetite and I go with the flow. I just jumped into this when the opportunity was there. Also I had my regular job which was needed because this was a self-funded project. Though the ads and shorts I did earlier shaped my learning and sensibilities, that played a very small part in embarking on this project. That’s also because this was initially a short film and only later did it graduate to becoming a feature film.
Were budgetary constraints a challenge even though you were shooting it guerrilla style?
First of all Guerrilla style for us was not by choice, but due to lack of it i would say. Primarily due to both budget and resource constraints. Not to mention the fact that we are outsiders with regards to the film industry and whatever little we spoke to someone from the industry we felt more like outsiders. It also felt like a lot of castles are built in the air there and one has to be very careful. A lot of stories that we hear or come across as gossip started seeming real.
That's why we just decided to take the leap of faith. I had a regular day job, which was a double edged sword. Because it did give me a safety net but it also meant I worked in a stretch mode shooting primarily after work hours (that’s why you see a lot of the movie happens at night) and on weekends if not holidays. Also, whenever the funds dried up, I had to wait for the month end for the salary to be credited before we could resume shooting. THis budgetary constraint and resource constraint also meant we did a lot of begging and borrowing (thankfully no stealing) and if i can say this - shooting without permission. However at the end this also worked in our favor because a lot of the locations looked real (no studios remember) and so did characters because they were played by people who perform that job daily and not actors be it a car mechanic or a journalist in the movie. Some well known actors like Neethu Shetty were used to big unit productions and the comforts that come with it which I obviously could not provide. However, they were sweet enough to adjust because for them their craft is more important.
How did you get people to collaborate with you on the tech front ?
On the tech front I was involved in most of the things and did a lot of it on my own, be it the rough edit, subtitling, choreography, scripting, production etc. Sound is not my department and hence I did some R&D and collaborated with newcomers because that’s what I could afford. But then the advantage was there was a lot of freshness as well, which is visible in the music and the Sound effects. Best part is no ego issues to deal with which I believe would have happened if I was working with industry veterans. The entire team of 1888 except for a few members from the cast and crew are debutantes. Most of them came onboard via references from friends and also some searching on facebook.
And actors? Was it easy to convince them to take on the challenge?
My trump card was getting the most famous name in our movie - Neethu Shetty onboard. That was possible because she is a good friend and I knew her for quite some time. Also the fact that this movie was not run of the mill and she had a very interesting role to play helped. She did have her apprehensions but in due course they were laid to rest. Because of Neethu I also got some of her other friends who are famous in the Kannada industry like Raghu Ramappa and Adhviti Shetty. So it was not really a major challenge. The rest of the cast were my friends and acquaintances. The major challenge was to get them to dub for their parts because they had their regular jobs and there was quite some gap between the shoot and the voice recording. But in the end it was all managed because I put my begging and convincing skills to best use here. I mean what are friends for, right?
Would you advise young budding filmmakers to get well-versed with the rudiments of filmmaking before embarking on such a challenge?
My personal advice for budding filmmakers is to go out there and maybe try making a short film. Could be just a 1 min film. Just be open to ideas and feedback and sleep over it. If you want to revisit it’s ok to re-shoot. But before all this ask yourself with utmost honesty why do you want to do this? There are no rights and wrongs here. It could be for the glamor attached to filmmaking or it could just be an avenue for you to express yourself creatively. Next is to understand one’s constraints/limits and play around it. Even if you want to stretch, limit that to 10-15% max. Of course, there's always the mainstream path. The conventional path i.e., applying to a film School, or probably assisting someone from the industry. There obviously learnings and progression there as well. I'm not sure how good that is, because I haven't tried that and a few folks that I worked with who came from that path were a mixed bag in my opinion. I personally feel like for me this whole journey of making a feature film that too guerrilla style, was like doing a PhD in filmmaking, and definitely a very satisfying experience. So the optimists and open-to-experiment-and-learn folks out there can also try that route. There are certain (infact a lot) mistakes that I made, which I can always share. But that’s a separate topic again.
How did you conceive the idea for this film?
Basically, my friend and I wanted to make a short film and we had been discussing multiple ideas for quite some-time. When demonetisation happened we came across some very interesting stories first-hand. It was very interesting. Upon further digging and reading more we felt like we were getting some interesting ideas to shoot a short film. However from the start we were clear about not focussing on the political part of it, like good move versus bad or should it have been better planned etc. we were more interested in the consequences of this move and certain unexpected things that surfaced. as we went deeper into research we kept on adding scenes and characters - that's how we ended up making a feature length film.
Do you foresee challenges from the govt because you have touched upon demonetisation as a background for the story?
I did foresee some problems initially. Interestingly the scene that the censor board found problematic was one of the most crucial scenes and my personal favorite in which I also acted the part. It dealt with crypto-currency and the deep web. I had never anticipated any issues with this scene. So that was surprising. Also we had to do a re-edit later to keep the movie length under 2 hours and because of that some scenes had to be removed which were not crucial but could have rubbed people the wrong way.
Are you satisfied with your final product?
I’m quite satisfied with the movie as such, however even now I keep getting thoughts as to what could have been better or what could have been avoided. I’m pretty sure that if I were to make the same movie today it would be a much better product overall. I’m sure this happens with a lot of people and is part and parcel of the creative journey one undertakes.
Why choose to release it on woocoo?
It’s live not just on Woocoo but multiple platforms as of today. The movie is playing on some big platforms like AppleTV, Tubi TV, Bookmyshow Streaming, Youtube Movies alongwith some new budding platforms like VDOJar, CineBazzar, MovieSaints, FutureTV etc.
Would you suggest new age filmmakers should handle story, screenplay, direction etc to have creative control over their work and how it pans out?
From a learning and creative control perspective definitely yes. It's your baby and no one else but you can give it the kind of attention it deserves. But coming to the practical part i'm not sure if that's possible especially nowadays where production studios demand greater control and without their support it's almost impossible to even get a decent release or be able to sell the rights. They decide on every aspect from the casting to camera used to creatives. There is a possibility to find the middle ground and I'm sure that can be rewarding too but that totally depends on the studio again and their trust on the filmmaker. Personally I would like to handle story, screenplay, direction and am sure many filmmakers prefer it that way. I'm a fan of the auteur approach. I'm not sure if that would work successfully in today's constantly changing landscape.
How does winning awards make you feel?
It absolutely depends on the award as in the organisation offering it. What I realised after applying to multiple film festivals and bagging awards, is that a lot of these film festivals especially those that are online-only are not even genuine ones. They are basically scams to make some quick bucks. Sending your movie entry there and winning an award is actually a waste of time and money. Apart from that, winning an award at the festivals that have been around for a long time and have an esteemed jury, is definitely special. Even more if the competition is stiffer in terms of the quality of films submitted and the number of films from all parts of the world. For example: winning an honorable jury mention in Dadasaheb Phalke Film Festival felt really special because we were up against some of the best and biggest films of 2023. So did being a nominee in the Indian Film festival, Stuttgart. Sometimes just being selected by a prestigious film festival feels more special than winning an award in a smaller film festival. I'm not saying this to demean any film festival because they all have their own journeys and their own criteria, but just that it feels that one's movie has been scrutinised more and has gone through a bigger validation process. Like it or not, sometimes that validation does help especially for indie filmmakers who are today struggling to showcase their work due to lack of opportunities. So yes, to summarise it winning an award does feel special and especially if it's in some core category like Best Feature, Best Director etc when compared to say Best Poster, Best Costume etc.
Does it motivate you to make more films even though this film did not really have a commercial release?
Honestly speaking it does not. Things have changed dramatically. Today unfortunately streamers refer to a checklist to pick films and more than the creative or cinematic merits a film is judged on the basis of certain data points like BO collection, Star power in the movie, Number of articles published in national media, Instagram followers, genre etc. Shallow but the bitter truth that's hard to digest. An indie film is also forced to tow the line of a mainstream commercial film in terms of release, publicity etc. I'm not kidding but I hear a lot of indie and docu filmmakers say there is a shift today and probably it's wiser to make instagram reels and youtube shorts these days. There are better monetisation opportunities for an influencer today than a filmmaker. So while I would love to make more films and tell stories I believe in, I'm not sure if I should. Because for sure the creative part is going to be great and the journey till the first copy will be rewarding. But what after that ? will the film ever play on any ott platform even if it releases commercially but doesn't make a lot of sound like a KGF or Pathaan. Will the movie be limited to a few festival screenings only? how am i going to make another film if there is no revenue coming in at all ? At the end the producer has to at least break even. Things are not like before where it was simpler to get funding and/or atleast release a film. The entire landscape , the eco system has changed a lot especially post pandemic.
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